Survival By The Book: Spontaneous Emergency

Welcome to the Fifth episode of Survival By The Book, the podcast series where local librarians learn about how to prepare for emergencies because being prepared shouldn't be complicated. 

When emergencies strike, preparation can make all the difference — and your local librarians are here to help you turn information into action.

In this episode of Survival by the Book, your local librarians sit down with two members of the Harris County Fire Marshal's Office to discuss how to respond when the unexpected happens because emergencies don't come with a warning, and knowing what to do in those first critical moments can make all the difference. 

Our guests share practical advice on staying calm, making quick decisions, and protecting yourself and those around you. Whether you're at home, at work, or out in the community, this conversation is packed with valuable tips that could help you prepare for life's most unpredictable moments.

Created by the Podcast Team at the Harris County Public Library.
www.hcpl.net

Podcast Team Members include: Beth Krippel, John Harbaugh, Mary Mink, Dylan Smith, Sadina Shawver, Alinda Mac, John Schaffer, Jennifer Finch, Katelyn Helberg, Darcy Casavant, Darla Pruitt and Nancy Hu 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Survival by the Book. Today, Mary and I have a special episode in store for you, as we're joined by two members of the Harris County Fire Marshal's office, Ronnie Incheck and Chris Wells. And they'll be giving us some info on what to do if you find yourself in a spontaneous emergency. How to react, survive, and get out with as little damage to your person as possible. So with that being said, I'll go ahead and let them take it away.

SPEAKER_03 0:41

Been with a fire marshal since 2001. Started as an arson investigator, did that for about 10 years. Transferred over to our hazmat division, did that for about 15 years, and then uh late to 2024, we started a threat management group. Myself and Chris Wells came over as part of the as the beginning of that division. And so we have the opportunity to uh teach a lot of active shooter type classes and do assessments on county infrastructure, um, looking for threats and vulnerabilities. Um been doing that, like I said, for about two years.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Hey, uh Chris Wells, I uh fairly new to the fire marshal's office. I've been here about a year and a half. Uh, however, I'm not new to Harris County. I've worked for Harris County for about 18 and a half years uh prior to that for the sheriff's office uh work patrol. Um I was uh a team lighter, team leader on our SWAT team for about eight years. Uh, and then I did some training at the academy. And then my last couple years I was there, I was over all the active shooter response, this type of response, whether it was for uh the the officers of new hires or the patrolmen on the streets or the civilian side, which is kind of what we're talking about today.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

All right. So then can you guys just go ahead and give us some information? Um, you guys did an amazing training. This is where I met Chris for the first time, and I got some training on what to do in an active shooter situation, and he just went over a lot of just kind of just basic guidelines of what to do if you see something. Like, for example, we talked about the I think it was the I always want to say spiral fire. Um Station. The station knife club fire in the situation that people found themselves in. Could you talk about that?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Yes, sir. Um, so the curriculum that we push is uh through alert, so it's through Texas State University. So uh in 2002, I believe Texas State University uh got together with Hayes County uh sheriff's office and they uh said, hey, we need to come up with some training curriculum for the law enforcement and first responders uh to deal with the active shooter, active attack type events. So they formed that, and then uh several years went by and they said, Hey, we need to come up with some material uh for the civilian response, right? So the class you're talking about we teach is uh civilian response to active shooter events. So we call it craze, and it goes into detail about what the civilians should do and uh you know when they find themselves in some kind of some type of um of uh high stressful event, right? So whether it's an active attack, we kind of stretch it out and and teach it more of a situational awareness type class, not just an active attack, because uh this type of training can relate to anything that we do on a daily basis, whether it's you know, filling up our car at the gas station or eating dinner somewhere, and you find yourself in in a uh bad situation, right? If you're paying attention to your surroundings, which is some of the the core fundamentals of this class, you can potentially you know avoid that situation. Uh the craze concepts are uh avoid, deny, defend. Uh so you know that's step one of avoiding it, which is that situational awareness um, you know, could potentially uh you know save your life or save you know lives of others that are around you. The Station Nightclub that you were talking about is a very interesting uh case study that we talk about. So it's a uh case that happened, I believe, in 2002. 2003. 2003 and uh Rhode Island. And so it was a uh small concert venue type place, and there was a uh concert going on, and at the front of the stage they had some pyrotechnics, and when the pyrotechnics go off, it ends up lighting the roof on fire of the venue. And uh so many people were in that denial phase of what we talk about of uh, you know, the active shooter response or the active attack response. They were in a denial phase and they're like, hey, is that really flames going across the top of the uh the building that we're in, or is that the pyrotechnics part of the show? Then there were some other factors that were involved, knowing your surroundings. Uh, you know, everybody wanted to go out the door that they came in rather than you know looking up for the exit signs in the buildings and looking for alternate ways out. So it ended up being a very tragic event because uh, you know, they they went to that one door that they knew of, and uh a lot of lives were were lost in that event, you know, which we believe could have been saved by, you know, some of that situational awareness of paying attention to your surroundings, knowing different exits, not just the one that you came in.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Hey Mary, I remember you having a lot of scouts training. How does situational awareness come into play when you're in the forest or out on the trails?

SPEAKER_01 5:21

I mean, I I don't know how to phrase this. I guess just always being aware of what's around you and the sound. And if it doesn't seem right, then it might not be right. Um, especially when you're out on the trail, you might encounter a wild animal or poison ivy. Like something that's also dangerous. Um, but you know what's interesting when you bring up this case study, uh, since we've been doing the survival by the book, we've obviously been doing a lot of research. And one of the books that I'd been reading, uh, which I've mentioned in a previous one, When the Grid Fails by Kaiferno, she mentions that in these situations, people will often not survive because they don't realize an exit could be an exit. Like you can break a window or you can go through a door that might not be marked exit, but will lead to another exit. And so I think that's also something that probably came up in the situation you just talked about, that people only saw the one exit and didn't think about anywhere else to go.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

No, exactly. And in some of the the research we've done on the case, they've actually drawn maps out and you can see where there was two, maybe three different exits where nobody doors wide open, nobody went that way to get out because they only knew the way they they came in, which is ultimately where the the majority of the individuals passed away was at that entrance because they didn't have that awareness is hey, there's always a second way out or second exit, or it could be. No matter where you go, there's always an alternative. So something to keep in mind.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Dylan, you probably have a question about this, but I also wonder how much like panic sets in when something's going wrong that people's like heart rate goes up and they start to not focus. Um are you guys gonna speak on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

We do, we we talk about it in the class. Uh, one of the things we talk about is when your heart rate goes up, you start losing what we call fine motor skills, right? So um we relate it to an active attack event being able to lock doors, right? So um we tell people to deny access. So locking your doors, putting furniture, putting stuff heavy in front of the doors. But when that heart rate starts going up under stress, you start losing those fine motor skills. So um auditory exclusion, being able to uh hear stuff, right? Um, that starts being diminished uh because of the stress level that you're under. Um, we see that a lot. We're we're teaching a class one time, um, and a um uh uh older female came up to us and and she was like, Hey, can I tell you a story? I'm like, Yes, ma'am. And she tells me a story about an event that she was involved in, and she goes, I was so stressed that I dropped the keys trying to lock the door three times before somebody else came up and picked up the keys and stuck the keys in the door and was able to lock the door uh to protect us. And and I was like, Yes, ma'am, that's you know exactly what we're talking about of this heart rate. Uh, you know, when it when it goes up so high, you start losing some of those things, you know, the the adrenaline going through your body, the the shaking of of uh you know your arms trying to stick that key in the hole or turn turn the knob, right? Or just the the normal thought process of hey, let me let me take that deep breath and look around and say, okay, where where's a safe way out, or what's an alternate right way out? Uh one of the things we teach in the class, and you know, the the students kind of laugh, we say, Hey, when you go shopping at your local grocery store, how many exits are there, right? And how many entry points? And everybody starts thinking, I'm like, hey, there's not two, there's not a produce and a pharmacy side, there's more than that inside the building, but that's all we think of, right? And then when when that stressful event happens, we say, hey, we need to run towards the front of the store when you know, realistically we could be in the back of it and say, hey, there's a uh loading dock back here. How do they get all this stuff in here? Let me go out that door, right? There's there's multiple doors all around, but because of that stress, we don't we don't think of that. We go back to what we did, which was come in the front door, and now we gotta, you know, try to make our way back to the front door.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

You know, you mentioned that, and I just thought some people might get stuck on the fact that, like, for example, when you're in the store, there's a lot of signage out there and stuff that says, like, oh, employees only or restricted access and stuff like that, that in those emergency situations, maybe they could still just keep that in their head. They're like, Oh, I'm not allowed to go that way, maybe. And so then they're like, I have to go through that way that I need to go. Um, because a lot of times behind those, there are other doors and exits that we have in the store that people can easily exit out from and stuff like that, that might not be so if there's a situation going on that people might not find or go to right away. And that's just something I just found really interesting that I didn't think about if something were to happen at my store to tell people like, oh hey, forget the signage, come this way, go out this exit. There's other places for you to go other than that sliding front door that's right there out in the open.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Yeah, no, agreed. I think people get complacent, like, hey, there's multiple ways to get out of somewhere just because it says employees only doesn't mean in case of an emergency that no longer applies. I need to get out. Sign doesn't really matter. I need to get out, and we'll figure it out later what the issue is with signage, but on the What if someone freezes up?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

What's the best way to help somebody who's like frozen and won't move? Um, I know I've been told in the past it it's kind of like you've got to leave them behind because you've got to save yourself first, and the trained professionals are should be the ones that show up to help somebody who's freezing up. But is there a way that like if we're all running out of an emergency situation and my friend over here is frozen up, is there a way to help them?

SPEAKER_03 11:03

I I think it's a case-by-case basis. I know um from the the response standpoint, we're trained that like, hey, there that's gonna happen. People are gonna freeze up, and if you're yelling at them, hey, get against that wall or whatever the case may be, they may not do what you're telling them to. So we have to adjust around that. Like, hey, you're you're not necessarily a bad person, you're just frozen up for the terrible situation you just saw or encountered. So I'd say be patient with them. It's a case-by-case thing. You may have to move on if it's a fire and they're not coming. Maybe you got to carry them out if it's a a smaller person or a child or something. So it's hard to say, but I I would definitely not yelling at them more and trying to force them, force them to do something isn't always the answer. So I think patience and and and try to help them if you can. But again, sometimes you're gonna have to make a decision a tough decision that doesn't allow them to to make it out with you. Maybe they have to go a different way, or the responders come in and help them out as well, because it may be a multiple person operation to get them out because somebody's gotta carry them. I don't know. Like I said, it's a very dynamic to the situation itself.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

That makes sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:08

And then I something else I wanted to ask is just so let's say someone does find themselves in their situations, what are some of like the first steps, or what are some of the things that they should do in order to, I guess, help calm themselves down, or that can help improve their chances of getting out of that situation as safely and as quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Uh I think one of the biggest things that that we try to teach is take those deep breaths, right? Try to calm yourself, take a couple deep breaths and say, okay, what do I need to do? Right. Um we uh we really believe in the in the craze program, the civilian response to the active shooter events. Um it goes hand in hand of what what's taught on the law enforcement side. And um and one of the things that that we go back to is taking those deep breaths and start looking around, right? Try try to avoid the situation before you find yourself in it, right? When you find yourself in it, the next steps we talk about going to is uh denying access, right? So uh try to get him in into a room that you don't have windows so you can uh put stuff in front of the doors, right? Um we uh as we're teaching this, we we um we try to make it light and and funny in some of the class, right? And make some jokes because it's it's one of those events that uh most people don't want to think about. But we found that the more that you script this, the more that you practice it, right? It helps you calm down. It helps you say, okay, uh let me take those deep breaths. Let me uh let me think, okay, something's going on on this side of the building. Where can I go to protect myself on this side to buy myself that time? Or where can I go to get out the building on this side? And uh one of the things we relate it to is fire drills in schools. Uh, you know, they've been doing fire drills in schools for a long time. And we tell people, hey, it's not a bunch of teachers that came together and said, hey, let's have a fire drill so we get a 20-minute break from the students, right? It's hey, when when we do this, when we practice this, it it has shown in their success to it of, you know, when you know what to do in a stressful environment, uh, you revert back to that, right? You go back to what you know, and I say, okay, if I if I have something going on here, I go this way. If I can't go here, I start putting stuff in front of the doors and I go multiple rooms, you know, the opposite direction. Uh so it's it's it's to me, it's it's kind of two concepts, right? That taking those deep breaths and and scripting and practicing, right? Uh, are you then be able to remain 100% calm and something stressful? Absolutely not, right? I I don't care, you know, what you do, what your what your history is, right? It's a stressful event. Uh, but it's trying to uh calm yourself down by those deep breaths and then saying, okay, well, I already know what to do, right? I know where to go, so let's start acting on that. Don't stay in that that denial of, oh man, I don't I don't think anything's really that bad.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah, I can see having jokes being a good idea because uh one of the things that I was trained on is never have your back to a door. So every time you're in a restaurant, make sure they don't put you at a table where your back is to the door. And after a while, it kind of just felt like I was always, who's behind me? Where's the door? And getting a little scary. So being able to kind of chill everybody out sounds good.

SPEAKER_03 15:21

No, absolutely it's funny you say that because we we talk about that all the time. My family, when we go sit down, they will sit in a restaurant, they'll sit around the table and leave or let me choose first where I want to sit because they know I want to have my back back or facing the door back to the to the wall, whatever it is. And then when we go to lunch together, or somebody else is a bunch of law enforcement, we all want to sit with our back facing the door so it looks weird if we're all lined up. And so we we keep that in mind too. Like, where's our exits? Where's our threats at? Where's our vulnerabilities? In the event something happens, we're just thinking that, and I would say it's subconscious at this point because we've thought about it so much, it's just natural to sit down on that side of the table or what.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Right. And I feel like for me, it's also reached an extra level where even if I'm facing the door, my back is to the kitchen and I know there's an exit through the kitchen. Yeah, so now my back's to that door.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

But but you're doing what we talked about, right? Knowing multiple, it's it's also knowing multiple exits. So, you know, I you're always gonna have some situation where you're not comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Um, but you know, thank thinking about that is is what we talk about, right? That situational awareness of of knowing multiple ways to get out if something does happen.

unknown 16:30

Right, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

Yeah, something when you guys mentioned just like thinking about those things, it just and the image that came to mind was like, you know, like a professional boxer, like shadow boxing or training for, you know, if my opponent does this, here's how I'm gonna react to that. It sounds like that's also very similar to these emergency situations where you know, even everyday like people could just think about like, oh, if someone came up, if someone did this, just like even just even if it's just like maybe for like a five minute, are you doing like a quick task that like say you're mopping around the house and then you're like, oh hey, you know, maybe you accidentally the toaster's on, and who knows, maybe there's like water leaking or the toaster catches fire and you're just mopping, like how would I react to that? Whenever I'm out, I just kind of just picture those things like oh, like whenever we're out in the forest or we talked about camping, it's like in my head, I always catastrophize things a lot, I guess. Or picture into my head like at night when I'm going to sleep sometimes. Like, oh, if I heard a noise, if this person did this, where would I take my where would I take my fiance, my dogs? I tell her that she's like, You're crazy. She's like, Oh my gosh, how do you sleep at night going in? How do you sleep at how do you have normal dreams at night when you're just laying in bed thinking about this? And I'm like, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

So that's that's the moment we talk about you know in the class of of trying to make jokes and right and and not being so serious in the class because you know, at the end of the class, we tell people, hey, we want you to go back to your office. And and when you're sitting at your desk, say, hey, if something bad happens, just like you talked about, if something bad happens, whether it uh you know the building starts to collapse or uh you know, bad storm, a gas leak, or an active attack event, right? Um, what what can I do? And and they they're all not handled the same, but thinking about that is is really your your first step, right? Um it and when you get into that stress, if you know how to react, uh it you're a step up from everybody else who hasn't processed that. Um I don't think you're crazy by any means.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

I I would go a step further and say it it's good to have those thoughts that you're gonna revert back to your training or whatever you've ran through your mind. Um, I use the analogy when we're teaching this class. It's like in Houston traffic or any traffic for that matter, if somebody slams on their brakes in front of you, what's your reaction gonna be? You're gonna slam on the brakes so you don't don't hit them. How many times you don't have to think about that, you just do it, right? Because we've done it so many times, especially here in Houston, you're always in stop and go traffic. So if I'm thinking about, hey, if this happens and then it does happen, I've already processed that. I know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go here, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that. I think uh I don't know if we've talked about it or if Chris talked about it, but it's not just us, it's your family. Like, do they know, like, hey, I'm gonna go do this? What do y'all need to do? Like, maybe y'all need to go this way and I'm gonna go this way, depending on what the situation is, and have that discussion. I know my wife and I, we discuss everything, but some and and I don't tell her what to do, she didn't tell me what to do. But in that situation, I may have to say, go do this. And she just has to know, like, hey, we've talked about this, and I know I gotta go off this exit or whatever it might be. So it's not just yourself, it's just those that are around you.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Yeah, we do talk about that a lot. Where the best way to prepare is to have a plan, regardless of what it is, right? It be an active shooter or a hurricane, or I think we even talked about maybe riots briefly. Like, as long as you have a plan for what your family is going to do, because you have to have a meetup point. You don't want when something's going wrong, we're like, I don't know, he went to ATV, I'm here, like wherever your plan is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

There's there's a cool case study in the class we we uh teach, and it's uh the Morgan Stanley building and the World Trade Center. And uh there was a guy who was in charge of doing all the evacuation drills and uh preparedness for that type of event. And uh he's accredited for saving almost 2,700 people because when the planes hit the towers, uh everybody on the floor that he was there uh said, Hey, I know how to react, let's do this. And they evacuated the entire floor, right? The last he was he was seen, he was going back in there, uh, you know, trying to save more uh you know innocent civilians in that event, but uh saved a ton of of lives because everybody knew what to do because they practiced it all the time.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

That's something we uh that we talk about in the podcast a lot too, is like even if you have these plans, it doesn't mean anything if you don't actually practice them, set a skip like even just like once a year with your family, but like, hey, we're gonna just see how quickly we can put together or grab like our emergency preparedness kits and stuff like that. If they're, for example, let's say in Houston, Harris County in Houston is known for getting hurricanes and floods and all that stuff. So if we need to get out of the house, how fast can we get out of the house? What what are some of the steps? Do we know where everything is? Um, and kind of just time it just to see, you know, how long is it gonna take? Because in that way you can plan more accordingly, like, okay, it's gonna take us 10 minutes to get all the kids and the pets loaded up in the car and on our way. So then that gives you time to plan for other future or like get deeper into your survival plan scenarios, like okay, now we're gonna go to my parents' house and we're gonna stay here and wait it out, or stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

And I would take a step forward uh or f uh further as uh you thought about doing that with your with your kids, right? Um, you know, if you have children. Do they know what to do in a emergency event, you know, a house fire? Do they know where to go? Do they know how to get out of the house? Do they know uh a meetup location that you talked about, you know, out front? Um, you know, prepare them. Um, you know, obviously you have to gauge on that age and what they understand of what kind of information you can tell them, but uh the more you know, the better off you are.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Something that came in mind was the recent, like the Travis Cott festival where all the people where it was super overcrowded and people in the front were basically getting suffocated, pushed into the barriers and stuff like that. For if you are found in a situation like that at a concert, what are some things that again, if I'm at a concert, what are some things I can do to help out?

SPEAKER_03 22:46

That's a that's a tough one. I think it's just avoid. If you see something like that, I'm gonna try to get myself away and maybe in a more open area or know that there's an exit here. We you know we've got the largest rodeo in the world, I think. Um and we see a lot of people crowding there, and so there's some plans, like something happens. How do we open up the gates to get people out and and that kind of stuff as well? So it's try to avoid those crowded areas if you can and and not not uh put yourself in a situation.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

I think Rodney touched on it good too, though. Uh is the plans, right? Have a plan and then um have some some understanding or faith that the venue that you're at uh has a plan of what to do. So you know, try to remain calm in that situation and listen to the ushers that are saying, hey, go this way. This is your fastest way out, right? Uh this is your fastest way to get to safety. Um, I had a um uh my my oldest daughter just graduated high school and it was an outside outdoor venue where they're doing graduation and uh there's potential bad weather. And uh one of the concerns was like, hey, where does everybody go when there is bad weather, right? And the venue is like, hey, we have this in place already. Uh listen to your ushers, we'll tell you go left or right, we'll tell you to go this way, and we'll get you into uh, you know, uh uh an area where you're protected inside. So I think some of that is is is goes back to what we talked about of just you as a person having the plan, but understanding that that everybody else does at the same time and trying to remain calm and don't just uh you know rush towards certain locations and and and cause an issue when you know if you just walk calmly, everybody would be out safe.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Um so that's actually another what you just said leads into another great question of how much do you guys expect, or like not expect, I guess, but to what extent should civilians act to help assist first responders when they get there and stuff like that? Like, should it just be let's say they get out of the situation and then they see you guys, should they immediately run over to you guys and update you guys any information that they may have, or should they just trust that you guys know exactly everything that's going on? Or if let's say they run into you during that situation, how should they react to to what you guys are when how should they react when they see you?

SPEAKER_00 25:08

I would say kind of hang out close to where if that first responder need has some questions, you can answer it. Uh, you might have some firsthand knowledge that that uh you know we don't, right? So any information that you can provide obviously would help us. Um one of the the case studies from the clerk the craze class we talk about is the um Las Vegas uh active attack that happened in uh Vegas at the concert. And uh there was over 850 people that were injured. And because of civilians that stepped up and started helping each other, whether it was somebody that that helped carry somebody that twisted their ankle or hurt their leg, you know, get them to safety, or somebody that, you know, uh put pressure on a wound, right? Obviously helped save that person. Uh, or it it goes to uh the civilian that's saying, Hey, there's a bunch of injuries over here by this building, or uh, hey, when when I ran out of this building that started to fall down, uh, we still had 20 employees. We had a a meeting going on in a conference room, right? The conference room is on, you know, the very backside of the building. So, you know, that little bit of information obviously could could help that first responder. So, you know, obviously I I wouldn't say uh, you know, don't talk to them, but uh also understand that, you know, when they're showing up, they gotta they got to uh you know try to get that situational awareness themselves and figure out what's going on and what's their best plan of action to try to solve that problem.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

I I would add on a little bit and say if if you're being given instructions, if first responders are saying, hey, do this, do that, follow those instructions. That way you're hopefully doing the right thing, move over here, don't do that. Um, don't try to argue with them a little bit. I mean, you're stressed, we we get that too, but follow whatever instructions they say because they've been trained and hopefully are telling you to go to the right place based on whatever the situation is. And then if it's a medical situation, you and you know medical training or had medical training, perhaps you can assist and and in a terrible situation, they may need all the hands they can get to apply pressure or put on a tourniquet or help carry whatever it might be. So maybe offer that up if the the situation allows.

SPEAKER_02 27:20

Mary, do you have any other questions you might have?

SPEAKER_01 27:22

I have one. Um because I was told this one time, and it said that if you're ever in an active shooter situation and you have to run and you're out in the open where the shooter is, to run in a zigzag pattern, because uh most active shooters are not trained individuals and it's harder to lock onto you as a target, but that kind of seems like a uh you can outrun the alligator, climb a tree, sort of like advice. It's not that great. Uh is that good advice?

SPEAKER_00 27:54

I don't think it's bad advice, but I would take it a step forward or further and say, uh, look for cover. So go towards uh a vehicle, go towards a brick wall, go towards a a uh um a concrete pillar, right? Try to go from cover to cover rather than just running or the zigzag, right? Uh try to to get somewhere to where if you can't find cover, the concealment to where they can't see you. Get behind big bushes when you're running. Um, you know, obviously straight lines the fastest way to get away from something, right? Rather than zigzagging. Uh, because you're right. Um, you know, you you you hope that the person that that's causing the the harm is not some uh extremely uh trained individual, right? So I would say just trying to get from point A to point B is the quickest and safest route, but then I'd also look for for for stuff to get behind to hide, right? Um, you know, prevent them from seeing you or protect you from what whatever their their uh means of that attack is.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

All right. Well then, guys, I think that was all we'll have for you guys today. I want to again thank you guys for coming out. You guys teach a very inform informative class, and I took a lot from it, and hopefully our residents of Harris County will get a lot from this episode, as you guys.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Thank you. Yes, thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Yeah, thanks for listening to this episode of Survival by the Book. I hope you guys had time to get your architect degrees, print out some blueprints, and maybe go buy some tools because next week we're talking about shelter, when to hunker down, and when to get out of town.